Full Interview Julio Calzada - Spannabis 2015

Transcript of interview with Julio Calzada:

- Julio Calzada is here with us...I don't want to say it wrong, I have it written here, general secretary of the National Commission on Drugs of Uruguay. We want to chat for a while with him, so he can tell us about this hot topic in Uruguay, marijuana legalization, so we'll ask him a few questions. - How are you Julio, are you enjoying Spannabis, is it ok?

Fine, surprised, yes.

- Surprised of seeing so many people here, right?

So many people and diversity, pleasingly surprised.

- All right, then, we just start from the beginning, around 20 days ago you elected a new president, Mr. Mújica, who has clearly supported the legalization of cannabis, and, what about it? What is the situation right now?

What news do we have from Uruguay regarding politics and the legalization of marijuana?

Well, the party in government is still the same, and this is a very important issue; maintaining this law featured  in the programme of the party, and obviously developing changes in regard with drug policy... 

- Fortunately!

Yes, you can say so...we have an old and rudimentary law which dates from 1974, very hard, and the political aim of this party is working to change this law, expanding it, updating it to the current situation.

The current president of the Republic has actually said that he wants to maintain this law, what has been ratified by the general secretary on the 2nd March, so this policy is going to continue and the law is going to be untouched in a first phase.
We have always stated that this law can be eventually modified, it is not a universal law until the end of times, right?

Eventually, as long as some aspects of this law should be modified over time, it will be gradually modified.

- This law is ok to him, Tabaré Vazquez actually agrees with the law approved by president Mújica,
he doesn't want any changes; either tightening up the law or relaxing it, he is going straight forward with what  is already approved.

What is approved is what is going to be accepted, the policy - which is something wider than the law - is going to be the same, what he has stated several times is that he is going to make a close follow-up on the development of this law, something that we also considered necessary and that we had been doing lately.

During our period in charge we created a scientific advisory committee for the evaluation and follow-up of the law, where several national and international scientific personalities who work on the drug issue joined efforts.

- Advising, right?

Sure, it is an advisory group, where we have personalities such as Peter Reuters, who has worked on this topic during several years in the USA, Araceli Manjón, who has also worked on this issue for many years. They have gone to Montevideo, they have advised us on how to perform this follow-up, because it is a responsible policy,
a policy aimed at improving the health of the population in general, at improving the cohabitation relationships, at avoiding useless prosecutions for things that aren't really significant for third parts, right?

So yes, this law is going to prevail and what is more important, also these policies will do it.

- Again, luckily, because...well, I've read a bit, and the president has a degree in oncology and radiology,
maybe this is why he can have affinities with certain people, such as cancer patients, or he may have seen that this can be a...Well, something to feel better,
something that can make patients have a better time, he is...especially sensitive to this topic, right?

Of course...the...the law has 3 main aspects, right? When we were working on this issue for more than a year and a half, we consulted and saw, in some cases, which were the policies carried out in Holland, the USA... where it is...

- In several states already...

regularized...eh...the existence of cannabis social clubs here in Spain, the self-cultivation of cannabis  in Australia, what has been done in the Czech Republic, eh...we had a...

A panoramic review of...of the global initiatives regarding this issue. We learned from all of them, and we regulated three main columns of the law, which are cannabis for non-medicinal purposes, normally... 

- Recreational

Recreational, the industrial uses of hemp, which was not operative in Uruguay, it was not regulated, and finally cannabis for medicinal use and its different applications, the use as medicinal herb with psychoactive potential and the controlled use; and as medicine, as a second possibility.

We worked on this during a long period, the law stayed like this, and finally between May 2014 and January 2015 we made these three new regulations on the law. 

That means that today, for example, an oncologic patient or anyone who needs marijuana as medicine can... 

Eh...obtain it. It is still not completely developed, since there are also other factors such as the sensitivity of the doctors to...

- Not everyone agrees with it, right?

prescribe it...Let's say, still a lot of work has to be done, but the frame of the law is already done and actually working.

- It's on, right? Luckily, in Uruguay patients can access this medicinal cannabis, while here we are...well, we have our hands tied here... Let's discuss now the other side, drug trafficking. Dou you think that with...when this comes to an end and everything is working, drug dealing and all the illegal market…

Will be...eradicated, or drastically reduced, or perhaps they may be regularized. Or not regulated, but...well, controlled...

Yes...well...one of our main arguments when we started this process is developing an honest legal way to compete with the illegal commerce, with a precise framework, and with economic mechanisms.

Because drug trafficking is, after all and first and foremost, an economic reality.

An economic reality can't be, in any way, exclusively ruled by legal frames.

We must have legal frames, we must have clear which are the committed infractions on the criminal law regarding this topic,
but we also must have ways to have legal access. Among these arguments, we always claimed that the more market we can gain against drug-trafficking, the more we'll be weakening it.

And well, since the law is operative - which is not a long period,
one year in May - it has been working on everything related to self-cultivation of cannabis, where are the clubs operating in a clear framework, their functioning…

- Is self-cultivation of marijuana legal? Is there any limit on the number of plants?

There is a limit on the number of plants, and there is a self-cultivation registration, what guarantees the grower that he/she is not going to be..

Prosecuted for an activity that…well, they can grow up to 6 plants, they can have up to 480gr at home, they can have up to 10gr in the street, because it is a group of…

Regularized…a regularization, because here we still don’t know how many plants we can grow.

Sure, well, over there you can grow 6 female plants, one can have those plants at home. Logically, the grower can have neither 10 females, nor 7, because he/she would be actually committing an administrative offence and eventually committing a… a criminal limit, right?

But well, all this is regulated, it is working, there are 2000 people today in this system, 2000 people who don’t depend on drug dealers anymore, so…
…we believe that this is the most important aspect, the law is working and nothing has substantially changed.

- Well, I’ve searched in the archives, there is an interview at Radio Universal on the past year, about 4 or 5 months ago,
in which you made a very clear statement: 1 gram, 1 dollar. Is it possible?

It is possible. During this process, a very systematic process,
we have worked…we asked the National Seed Institute, the National Agricultural Research Institute of Uruguay, with…accounting studies…We hired a consultant to study the prices, and this study tells us that the sale of 1gram of quality cannabis for 1 dollar is indeed possible.

And that the farmer still has a reasonable profit…

- Do they? Do they all take profit?

It also leaves profit to the distributors, and the…the clearer proof of this is that during the bidding process that we started on the 31st of August 2014, all companies presented knew all these conditions, right? 

22 companies were presented to… to compete for this. We selected 17 of them, there were 5 companies that didn’t meet the requirements… to participate in this bidding process. Out of 15 companies from those 17 withdrew their plans. They went back
No,no. 15 stayed but withdrew the conditions for the second call, the required documentation for the second call. 

11 companies were presented with proposals of investing 1.300.000-1.700.000$ to produce in a systematic and massive way.
And well, among these companies, 5 of them are still competing.

Probably on the next week they will be assigned. This means that…

- So 5 companies will be in charge? 

Initially only 2 or 3 companies will be working. This is going to be a progressive and unhurried process.

With the studies we have, we calculate a market for Uruguay around 20-25 tons.

We don’t expect every user to be in the system since the beginning, so this is something that has to be gradually managed.

- These companies would depend directly on the State, I mean…the government is going to order this production to them.

The government makes the order, but everything works in a private context, I mean, these companies will have to compete.

These companies must manage their economic efficiency, compete in quality, in profitability, and the better return, the more profit they'll have.

- And if there is competence, people will enjoy more quality, because if one company wants to outperform another then...well,
in reality, competence is beneficial in certain sectors.

Sure, as long as it is clearly framed and it is not a competence in an open market.

We believe that, regarding psychoactive substances - those substances that alter the mood, the consciousness markets should be restrictive, there are strong publicity restrictions, I mean, these companies can neither publicise their products nor promote the use of marijuana.

Obviously, in the sector that you mentioned, the medicinal sector, the medicinal cannabis issue, either as weed or medicine, these companies can disclose information. But it is not the same than...

-...making propaganda for the general use of cannabis, right?- Do we have dates? Do we know in which date the users from Uruguay will be able to access dispensaries? Will it be possible?

That's what all journalists want, dates

- So there's no date, right?

There's no date, but probably it will happen during the second semester. We actually...

- In this year, so we can say that in 2015, in Uruguay...it will be possible to...

Yes, yes, yes, I even believe that maybe during the first semester, of 2015, this could happen. The process has been long and has been delayed. We expected that this would happen before.

But we had difficulties, for example, regarding the requirements for the companies. You mentioned drug-trafficking before...

The economical side of these companies is strictly controlled.

They must facilitate all the required documentation so we can check that the invested money for legal production does not come from the illegal market.  And that is very important...

...to offer security, for us initially, but also for the neighbouring states of the region, and for the other nations to realize that this is a serious process, it is a process...

- Nice, well  performed, with basis, properly studied...isn't it? Properly consulted.

Well, this is what we think, right? I mean...we are not almighty to say that this doesn't have... mistakes, right? But we really think that we have developed it responsibly. 

And we want to offer this security, to both us and to everyone else, that the legal production won't be sold in the black market.

And, to do so, one of the main factors is controlling the origins of the funds, so in this process we are asking all companies to clearly show these origins.

And this has delayed us in many aspects such as licensing these companies to start producing. If they are licensed during March,
notice that this company needs more than a month, perhaps a month and a half to build a green house, and after that the crop still has to grow.

- That's it, yes, yes...

It will be a continuous production process, right? This process won't follow the natural cycles, it will be performed under controlled conditions, because a very important aspect is that we don't want large amounts of cannabis stored, but a continuous production so it is placed directly in the market for the users

- Right. What are the requirements for the users in Uruguay to go to a cannabis dispensary?

They have to be of legal age,

- Important

They must be +18, and not having any serious psychiatric or psychological problem, they must be autonomous persons

- Sure, but if I go to buy I can tell you...

Well, if you go to buy, what you need is being resident in Uruguay
At least during one year, and being of legal age, these are the two only requisites

- Is there a limit? Can I buy any amount, or how much can I buy?

No, you can buy for non-medicinal purposes, for recreational use
up to 40gr per month, around 10gr per week. We have performed several studies, and we think this is enough, it even could have been less, the average user needs about 18gr per month
for recreational use, but you'll have more restrictions if you are using it for medicinal purposes, right?

The doctor can prescribe 20gr, or 40gr, or 80gr, but during the month in which your prescription  is valid, you can't access the recreational market it is not compatible in the same way as you can't grow your own marijuana or be a member of a club and buy in the drugstore. You have to choose one of the three options, of course. 

- You have to choose your path. In Spain, regarding the laws in Spain, how far are we from Uruguay? Do you think that we will ever reach your...level, I mean, follow your steps?

Well, two things. We believe that what we have done in Uruguay in a path, not a model for others to copy, right?

In the same way that sometimes we speak about a Dutch model
actually a model is a prototype that can be reproduced, and nobody has reproduced the Dutch model, right?

I think that is the most important of this process of debate on drugs in the world.

We must break with the logics imposed by the international conventions.

A single politics, a single reality, for Spain, for Uruguay, for China, for USA.

When we actually are completely different cultures.

We are completely different realities, and each country, in some way, each culture, each tradition, must find their own way I don't know the future of drug policy in Spain, but I believe that, globally, we are making steps forward fast, very quick the economic reality itself, the technologic reality, the international relationships,
are going to replace obsolete laws.

We, what we propose to the world, to multilateral institutions such as the UN Commission on Narcotic Drugs or other institutions, is that drug policies should be built from...with an approach to public health and from the point of view of Human Rights, knowing that persons are autonomous beings

- Yes, with responsible use And a regulation, right?

Knowing what we can grow, if we can use cannabis, and especially regarding the medicinal field we should advance, because many patients would see their health improved, and this is very difficult in Spain, I mean, not even a medical prescription is legal...we have no legal options here.

Then perhaps a political change would be a step forward, wouldn't it?

Well, I think...The experience in Uruguay may help to define other policies in other places on the basis of other realities.

In Uruguay, if an entrepreneur, association or chemical company has a cannabis product and has arguments to claim that this product is suitable for something, and it meets the requirements of the Ministry of Public Health, then this product will enter the market. Then, we need the doctors to become sensitive with it...

- We have many people against it. There is currently no unanimity here, although many people support it. Maybe too many people against it, right?

It is a task for the associations, for the social movements also for the doctors that are convinced that we have something important here, to sensitize, to divulgate, to achieve that more people...

- People should change their mind, right?

Exactly, change their point of view people must change their opinions on marijuana, this is not only a pothead issue, marijuana has, well, a wide... a wide range of beneficial properties.

Mr Calzada, It has been a true pleasure, enjoy the fair, we say goodbye until the next interview.

Chao